In 2019 the leadership of the European Union changed. Many in Ukraine regretted that Donald Tusk had ceased to be the European Council President.

Time has proved that Ukraine did not lose with this change. The new EUCO President Charles Michel, former prime minister of Belgium, became a friend of Ukraine, too. In the pandemic 2021, Michelle visited Ukraine three times. Including a visit to Donbas. Today, his phone calls with President Zelensky are more than regular.

We met before the end of Charles Michel's visit to Kyiv on 20 April 2022. His key message to Ukraine is clear: Ukraine will win the war against Russia.

You can also watch the interview on the YouTube channel of the European Pravda (in Ukrainian).

"The history is made in Ukraine today"

– Today, you had a meeting with President Zelensky. And before that, you have seen all these atrocities in Boradianka and other towns next to oKiev. Given all of that, how would you define what is going on in Ukraine? 

– This is a war launched by the Kremlin, by Vladimir Putin, against the sovereignty of Ukraine but also against democratic principles and democratic values. And that's why the EU has decided to support Ukraine as much as we can. Including very firm sanctions against Russia.

This war is inspired by the free choice of the Ukrainian people to be more and more connected to the EU, to the West, and to the Democratic world. It undermines security in Europe, and it's why EU member states decide to provide military support for the first time in EU history.

– If Russia wages war against European values, is there a chance that some other States can also be attacked?

– It's difficult to predict what will happen, but it's important to stop Putin in Ukraine. 

It's important that Ukraine win the war. 

This is paramount for the future of Ukraine, but also for the future and security in Europe and even in the world.

– Some people say that it has escalated to World War-3, hasn't it?

– This is very important to provide the maximum support to Ukraine but not provoke World War III. 

That's why the decisions we need are so difficult to make.

But I remember very well two days after the start of the war when President Zelensky called me and asked me to coordinate the EU response in providing military equipment. It was a very difficult decision; the EU had never done that. But we succeeded in convincing the member states in a few hours. 

In two months since then, the EU has allocated €1.5 billion (for the weaponry purchase -EuroPravda), in addition to the bilateral support offered by many member states. And we are working to do more. 

Also, we help Ukraine to collect the evidence of the war crimes committed in Ukraine because it's important to fight against impunity.

Of course, it will be the duty and responsibility of the judges to qualify those crimes, but it's very important to make sure that the people responsible for those crimes will be punished. 

I believe in justice and in international justice.

– I'm quite convinced that we have seen even the genocide. Do you back that assessment?

– There is a possible genocide, but it will be the responsibility of the justice to assess those crimes legally.

But I share your assessment that we see a tragedy, which is horrible to observe on the European continent - such a level of aggression and violence... That's why we are so committed to doing everything we can to stop this and help those on the ground.

You know, we understand one important thing: people in Ukraine, both soldiers and civilians, are fighting not only for their sovereignty and for the future of their children. They are also fighting for the values we believe in, for democracy and for the free world. 

History is made in Ukraine today. 

And decisions we will take or will not take today will have a huge effect in the following years.

"I'm convinced that Ukraine will win this war"

– Now, we have a new wave of Russian aggression in Ukraine. They are escalating in the East and also in the South. 

– You are right. We're observing more and more violence from Russia. 

It shows that Russia and Kremlin made the same fundamental mistakes they made when they started the war.

They thought Ukraine would not be able to resist, but Ukraine is resisting and fighting. 

They thought that the EU would be divided and unable to take any firm decisions – but we're taking strong decisions, including sanctions, and we will continue to take them in the near future. 

They thought it would break transatlantic ties, but you can see the contrary. And in countries like Sweden or Finland, there is a growing debate about their NATO membership. 

Probably Russia understands they are not getting what they want. It made them nervous and maybe dangerous.

– Given that we have that new wave of Russian invasion, is there anything that the EU can do to change Russia's behaviour?

– Yes. The fundamental point is the delivery of weapons.

And we need to deliver heavy weapons. 

We will not make much news about that delivery for obvious security reasons. But we are totally committed to maintaining our approach and delivering weapons to Ukraine. It's extremely important and extremely urgent.

Also, we are working day to day to increase the impact of the sanctions. For instance, it's important to engage with third countries to close ways for the oligarchs to escape the sanctions easily. It requires a lot of diplomatic effort. But Ukraine knows that you can count on the European Union in this.

Of course, it's not enough. We have to do more. You need sanctions support, financial support, military equipment, humanitarian support, and also support in the field of international justice.

– I have referred to the heavy weapon. It's quite new: earlier, our partners were hesitant here. Can we expect military jets?

– I do not intend to make more comments on that for obvious reasons. 

There is a war launched by Russia against Ukraine. We want to support Ukraine. We support Ukraine with military equipment and with other means that we do not intend to communicate publicly

– What is the main way to stop Russia? Weapons, sanctions, treason among Russian oligarchs? 

– No one has the magic bullet, unfortunately, but we need to be committed, we need to be motivated, we need to be lucid, and we need to cooperate, to coordinate. 

For that, we need to use all tools we have: sanctions, support of Ukraine and diplomacy to mobilize the international community and put more pressure on the Kremlin. We must use all available tools.

– Do you personally believe that Ukraine will win this war?

– I'm personally convinced that Ukraine will win this war.

– And what is the victory? In World War II, the victory was to take over Berlin. Is it an option to take over Moscow?

– The goal is Ukraine is not to launch aggression against Moscow. The goal of Ukraine is to protect its territory, to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine. 

What will be the shape of this victory? I will show full respect for the choice that the Ukrainian authorities will make because they represent the interests of the Ukrainian people. And this is the responsibility of the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian people to decide their common goals.

"I want to be serious, and I want to tell the truth"

– Do you see a way for dialogue with Putin for the EU and for you personally?

– I know Putin for many years since I was the Prime Minister of Belgium. After the war had started, we spoke several times, too, as I wanted to support the negotiation efforts of Ukraine. 

If Ukrainian authorities think it's important to maintain a channel of communication, we have to support them, even if there is frustration on what Russia does, even if we are not naive. 

When we speak with Putin, we try to open humanitarian corridors, to use arguments, and to put pressure in order to have an effect. And even if we are not succeeding immediately, we must continue supporting Ukrainian authorities politically and also through our communication channels with Kremlin.

– I have to ask shortly about Ukrainian application for membership. You said you expect the Commission to provide its opinion by the end of June. Isn't it too late? In June, European Council is expected to decide on it.

– Commission has announced the goal to publish this opinion by the end of June and to communicate it to heads of states and governments. 

Then, it will be my responsibility to assess when we are ready to discuss the topic at the level of the European Council. 

We had our first debate on that a few weeks ago in Versailles. 

There are different sensitivities on this topic around the table of the European Council when we speak about the enlargement. The veto right for all 27 EU members makes our decision-making process sometimes complex and difficult. 

Also, we need to take into account that some other countries, for instance, in the Western Balkans, applied for the EU membership many years ago. We need to take this into account for the global picture. 

But Ukrainian authorities and people in Ukraine know that there is a lot of support in the EU to make sure that we will have a serious debate on this strategic question.

Is there a consensus among member states that Ukraine will become a member of the EU one day?

– I know that journalists would like to have an answer "yes" or "no". But the reality is more complex than that. 

I want to be serious, and I want to tell the truth. And the truth is that we need to decide by unanimity, with the support of the 27 member States, and many of them want to take into account the Commission's legal opinion and the commitments taken by the Ukrainian authorities.

That's why this work being done now by the Commission together with Ukraine is so important. As you know, Ukrainian authorities have already transmitted their replies to the questionnaire to the European Commission. 

It means the legal assessment is on its way.

– Ukraine has to be rehabilitated or even rebuilt after the war. What would be the role of the EU?

– We are ready to play a central role together with the Ukraine authorities.

We're discussing concrete initiatives. One of them is to launch the Solidarity Trust Fund. It will be available to cover not only the rebuilding but also social expenditures, which is extremely important for Ukraine. 

And I feel strong support for this across the EU and across the international community. 

It's also important to develop a fast track approach.

– Zelensky says this reconstruction should start before the end of the war. Is that realistic?

– Yes. I think he is right, and the Ukrainian government is right when they are impatient and when they want to act quickly. Ukraine can count on my support and the support of the EU in this.

Interview by Sergiy Sidorenko,

video by Volodymyr Oliynyk,

European Pravda