NATO Discusses Every Day How to Respond in Case of Nuclear Strike. Interview with German Ambassador

Germany is probably the most controversial partner of Ukraine. This state provides Ukraine with vast amounts of financial aid. This state became the engine of anti-Russian sanctions in 2014 and ensured them even when other partners advocated lifting.

But meanwhile, the word Germany most often equals failed decisions - such as the Nord Stream-2 and the refusal to supply weapons until the full-scale Russian invasion.

And now, even the leadership of Germany has different opinions on many essential issues. Chancellor Scholz, for example, is still against tank supply, while the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Baerbock, is in favor. But some issues Berlin supports unquestionably at all levels.

We talked about all this and much more - and about the nuclear threat - in a frank and very undiplomatic interview with the German ambassador to Ukraine, Anka Feldhusen. For example, she admitted that Berlin does not limit the territory where Kyiv can use the provided weapons. She assured: Germany believes Ukraine will win this war. She has broken the silence of European diplomats about what the West is telling the Ukrainian authorities about the pressure on opposition TV channels.

"Ukraine's attacks on Crimea were very important"

- The sham referendums have ended in Ukraine's eastern and southern regions. Russia will announce the annexation of these territories in a few days. What will it change?

- Russia will say: "This is now our territory. We can now respond to an attack on Russian territory." This is a clear escalation from the Russian side.

That is why we clearly said that this is a pseudo-vote, not a referendum. We will explain this to our partners from other continents. The Russian narrative is perceived differently there than here. We need a majority in the world that supports Ukraine in this matter.

On the other hand, we are already talking with our close partners about additional sanctions.

- Ukraine will continue its counteroffensive. Does it matter to Germany that Russia has raised the stakes with talks about an attack on "its territory"?

- We do not recognize these sham referendums. For us, this is the territory of Ukraine. Ukraine does what it deems necessary on its territory. As for Ukraine's right to counteroffensive, nothing will change for us.

- Does this also apply to the counteroffensive in Crimea? Does Germany support this?

- This is the choice of Ukrainians and the government of Ukraine.

Your mini attacks on Crimea were very important psychologically.

- Germany supplies weapons to Ukraine. Some other states, such as the United States, do not let attack Russia with their newest weapons. Are there any restrictions from Germany?

- Like you, I read about the requirements of other partners, but not Germany. I was in Germany at a conference of ambassadors the other day. We did not discuss it either.

When we hand over weapons to Ukraine, we assume we no longer control them. We cannot influence how these weapons will be used.

"We get used to everything, even war"

- Putin is trying to change reality with nuclear blackmail. Is it real that Putin will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine?

- The full-scale aggression showed us that it is necessary to take what he says and writes very seriously. Our logic with Putin simply does not work.

This nuclear blackmail is indeed blackmailing. But one cannot think that nothing will happen.

This is a real threat.

In January, we also thought nothing would happen, but Russia invaded Ukraine in February.

- What should the world do? What should Germany do to stop this?

- For now - talk. To call. We read that the Americans sent the signal very clearly. We do the same.

- What do you personally do, realizing that a nuclear strike is possible?

- We are preparing at the embassy. It did not start with the nukes but with the ZNPP.

We made sure we had iodine tablets for young people. You need them only before the age of 45. I, for example, don't need them anymore. We established a procedure that in case of something, you have to be indoors for 2-3 days...

We have known about these procedures since the Cold War.

- Besides, you realize the possibility of the nuclear strike but remain in Kyiv, like all embassies. Does this mean that the chance of an attack on Kyiv is low?

- First, let it sound beaten, but we get used to everything, even war. We have already realized we can work here with updated security and reduced staff. We are now 11 Germans here, but we were 55.

By the way, in February, the German embassy was among the last to evacuate. We left on the night of February 24.

Secondly, Ukraine is successfully repulsing the Russian armed forces and has launched a counteroffensive. We see that the war is far from Kyiv.

- Indeed, a nuclear attack on Kyiv, when both Western and Eastern diplomats are present here, is too senseless a step for Putin as well

- Yes, as you say.

In the spring, I was very surprised that he attacked Yavoriv twice, less than 30 km from the border with NATO. Since then, he has not attacked anything so close to the border. Perhaps he still has some rational reasoning.

- What will the West do if Putin crosses this "red line" and launches a nuclear attack?

- We should ask the NATO headquarters. Germany is a NATO member, and we will act, especially in the military sphere, only together with our allies.

"It seems we will also supply you with tanks"

- I have a difficult question: what is Germany for Ukraine?

- Germany is a reliable partner for Ukraine. It is hard to believe it now, but I am sure that Germany was, is, and will be the most reliable partner for Ukraine.

Since 2014, we have shown that we assist and back Ukraine both in energy and reconstruction in the East. We provided humanitarian aid.

Germany is a country that thinks longer before starting to act. But this sustainable assistance will last many years and teach and give Ukrainians the tools to help themselves.

- Why do you think a significant part of Ukrainian society does not consider Germany, a reliable partner?

- The first is a long way to shutting down the Nord Stream-2. In Berlin, they did not understand what a risk this carries for our reputation. Although I explained it many times in Berlin.

The second is our refusal to supply weapons to Ukraine before February 24. I understand that the Ukrainian government will be outraged by this. It was really our fault. In Germany, there was a policy banning the supply of weapons to places of conflict. Until now, there was only one exception - the Kurds.

I understand Ukrainians. I really wanted us to supply you with weapons before the 24th, at least non-lethal ones. But I also know why Germany did not do this because it was a principle for us. It was like a part of our DNA.

Russia's attack changed everything for us, changed our outlook.

I also understand President Zelensky, who the other day gave an interview to Bild and said that he wants an answer from Germany: will Germany hand over tanks or not?

- And what is the answer?

- You know, Germany already supplies a lot of weapons to Ukraine. We just need to continue to talk about it. I think we will (hand over tanks as well. - EP).

- And you also need to be convinced that we need tanks?

- Well, I live here. I am a friend of Ukraine. I really understand the disappointment of Ukrainians that other countries provide more. I always tried to explain our position: Germany no longer wanted to act on its own after WWII. We try to solve everything we can in Brussels. And we really did a lot for Ukraine there.

I remember the sanctions even after the annexation of Crimea and how we fought for their prolongation. But it is not as attractive as weapons. Unfortunately, one unsuccessful communication turned out to be enough for everyone here to think that the Germans do not support you.

- Germany plans to hand over air defense systems to Ukraine soon. It is essential, indeed. But why so long?

- No, not long. And we have to wait because these systems are still being produced.

The first system will hopefully arrive in October. And if, at first, we thought to send one IRIS-T complex, then we decided to add three more. They are also being produced now. I really hope to have the second system by the end of this year, the rest early next year.

- Why doesn't Germany hand over its air defense systems to us? After all, missiles land here.

- Because we do not use these systems. The Bundeswehr does not have them.

All countries around Germany are NATO members. Anti-aircraft systems are located all around us. I personally saw the American Patriot systems in Poland but never in Germany. Therefore, the Bundeswehr does not use IRIS-T.

- I have to ask a crucial question: how will the war end?

- I, like all Ukrainians, hope that the war will end quickly, that no more people will die, and that there will be no more raped women and children who see these horrors.

We have all seen how inefficiently Russia's vast armed forces functioned. All our experts were surprised by this. We see a counteroffensive in the Kharkiv region and in the south. Is this enough? If I had to bet my money on any outcome, I'd bet on it being until spring. So you still need more weapons.

- How will it end?

- With the victory of Ukraine.

- Does Berlin think so, too?

- Yes.

- What is the victory?

- Victory is what Ukraine considers victory. At the beginning of the war, President Zelensky said that this was a return to  February 23. Everyone has seen that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are capable of doing more. Now we are talking about the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine. And if you believe that victory means the liberation of all internationally recognized territory, that is your right.

- Including Crimea, correct?

- Including Crimea.

"I am sure that Ukraine will survive this winter"

– Let's talk about "Nord Stream-2".

- It won't work.

- It means that practical Germans will leave the big pipe to rot underwater?

- Yes.

- What changed Germany's opinion?

- The war changed everything.

- Is it possible that practical Germans will say: "Let it work" after the war?

- If you imagine such a bright future when Russia is a normal country... I can't imagine it now either, but you can dream of complete peace in the world.

But even in such a world, the climate crisis will remain. And if it is possible to deliver "green" hydrogen through such a pipe, then we can assume it.

- And the gas?

- Gas - no. Not anymore.

- Will Germany be able to survive this winter without Russian gas?

- Yes. Currently, Europe receives only 9% of gas from Russia. Before the full-scale war, it was around 30-35%. We already get much less - we are still alive.

Germans really don't know what bills to expect in the winter, and that's a problem. We've already started saving. Another issue is our industry, where transitioning to other energy sources is more difficult, but we are working on that.

- Will Ukraine survive this winter if the gas supply from Russia stops completely, even through our GTS?

- Yes, I am sure that Ukraine can survive this winter, with agreements on reverse supply from Europe. It will be difficult for everyone, that's true. But I will stay here in the winter, it will be cold in my apartment, but together, we will get through this winter. It will help Ukraine to change.

"Our goal is that Ukraine remains a democracy even during the war"

- Let's talk about the future of Ukraine in the EU.

- I have believed for many years that Ukraine should join the EU. The Association Agreement helped you a lot. You are much closer to the EU than you were before 2014.

Without the full-scale war, Ukraine would have to wait much longer for candidate status. This was definitely a strategic mistake on Putin's part.

- Do you think that the European Union sees Ukraine as a member? Are we Europe for the EU?

- Undoubtedly, Ukraine is Europe.

- What should Ukraine do in order to advance towards the EU? What is the key?

- The reforms we have been talking about for a long time. Judicial reform. There is some progress but work still remains.

There are anti-corruption institutions, but it is important how they work.

And the third is the issue of corporate governance. This is the rule in all our clubs, the OECD and the EU, which Ukraine wants to join.

- During the war, we also see steps criticized as anti-democratic, for example, the banning of three TV channels. Is this a concern? Do you say: "Mr. Zelensky, this distances you from the EU," or do you think that during the war it is better not to discuss it?

- Maybe not publicly but we talk about these things with the Ukrainian government all the time. We have a common goal: for Ukraine to remain democratic even during the war.

Information warfare is indeed a component of modern wars. I understand why you shut down pro-Russian TV channels.

People should be given the opportunity to choose what they want to watch anyway.

"By the end of the year, you will receive another 3 billion euros"

- You know that the President's Office has appealed to partners, particularly Germany, with the idea of ​​the "Kyiv Security Compact." What does Berlin think about it?

- Berlin, like other capitals, is still reading and thinking about how to work with it. There are very different things like weapons so that Ukraine can withstand aggression and sanctions. We need to think about how to implement it. We will still talk about it with Ukrainian partners.

- What does Germany think, NATO membership is possible?

- I have no answer. But I understand the motivation of Ukraine, as you said at the beginning of the interview. Being a NATO member means feeling safe.

I lived in Poland, very close to the border, for ten weeks after leaving Kyiv on February 23. I remembered how Easter was. People were celebrating, and missiles were falling 100 km away. This is the security that NATO provides. It cannot be underestimated.

Ukraine wants to join NATO one day, but I cannot answer your question.

- I heard that there was an agreement with the EU and the USA that Ukraine should receive approximately $3 billion monthly to pay pensions and salaries. These funds are available from the States but not always from Europe.

- Europe will transfer them, too. The decision on macro-financial assistance for 5 billion euros for Ukraine is real. But the EU is 27 countries, and often a compromise must be found.

Germany is for transfering these funds and is already financially contributing more than others. Berlin was one of the first to transfer 1 billion euros to the IMF. We give 25% of all funds provided by the European Union. And we see that Ukraine needs this money.

- These 5 billion, unfortunately, are a loan. They will have to be paid back. It is unclear what will happen to the remaining 3 billion promised by the EU.

- Germany's position was that Ukraine could not pay the money back now. Therefore, we wanted all these funds to be grants, non-repayable aid. This was one of the discussions in Brussels. But a compromise was found: you receive 5 billion as a loan, the remaining 3 billion as a grant.

By the end of the year, you will definitely receive 3 billion. Brussels is now working on it.

- After the victory, it will still be difficult for bloody Ukraine to give this money back. Are there ways to raise the issue so that Ukraine does not have to pay the loan back?

- In the past, we had examples of how the country paid less or did not pay at all. This is the future. There is no need to talk about it now. We should not forget that Ukraine is a country with huge economic potential. I hope that after the victory, investors will come and your country can be very, very rich.

Interviewed by Sergiy Sydorenko,

Filmed by Volodymyr Oliinyk,

"European Pravda"