Clément Beaune is a French government minister who currently does not hold an extremely influential position (the Minister for Transport) but he is considered a trusted person by President Macron and is one of his close associates in the government.

It is publicly known that his previous position is connected to Ukraine – until the second half of 2022, Beaune was the Minister for Europe, and it was under his coordination that Ukraine was granted EU candidate status (at that time, France voted in the EU Council, and it was the Council of Ministers for Europe that dealt with this issue in a working mode).

It turned out that this is not the only connection. The French minister also shares his origins with Ukraine, which we learned when we met him in Odesa. Upon his arrival to Paris, Beaune agreed to give an online interview to "European Pravda."

"Let's not imagine that it can be done overnight"

– You started your visit to Ukraine from Odesa. As far as I know, you have some family there. Are you the only French minister with origin from Ukraine?

I think so. I've not asked all the member of the Cabinet, I must say. 

Indeed my great grandparents lived in Odesa around 1910 and they went by boat to Türkiye and then to Marseille in South of France, where they settled in 1911.

– Let me ask you about a sphere related to historic decision to grant Ukraine candidate status. I remember well how you were advocating that decision. Looking from today’s perspective, was it a correct EU decision?

Yes, I do think it was an important and correct decision to grant this status to Ukraine under the French Presidency of the EU nearly a year ago. We should be very proud of achieving this decision unanimously. 

It was, I think, a geopolitical decision. We needed to say that Ukraine will belong to the EU. 

It's also a moral decision. Ukrainian members of parliament and government officials insisted: the hope that you can join the EU as soon as possible will be a clear signal and a very important, not only a symbolic decision for you, which will determine the actions of Ukrainians.

– Do you perceive it as a message, a symbolic message, or you believe that Ukraine will be a new member of the EU?

I cannot say when. It's impossible for any on the Ukrainian side and the EU side, to say today when it happens. 

Negotiating, making reforms, integrating EU rules, EU standards takes some time. Also, it's a specific and very dramatic situation because, for the first time, candidate country is undergoing war on its own territory. So it's very difficult to predict anything.

I know what Ukraine insists on. 

I met Olha Stefanishyna, the vice Prime Minister in charge of the EU affairs, and she hopes to open the negotiations by the end of 2023. I know that Ukraine has already made a lot of steps, and is carrying out reforms even during war. There is a very, very, very strong motivation on the Ukrainian side to go as fast as possible. We must take this into account.

But it has to be a unanimous decision on the EU side. 

– In March 2022, you told CNN that Ukraine could become an EU member, I quote, in a few years. But in May, you said in an interview with Radio J that Ukraine’s accession will probably take 15-20 years. What is your opinion now?

I would say it is the same thing, which is twofold.

This process does take several years – but who knows how many!

And in May-2022 I said about 15-20 years because then we had disputes, including with Olga Stefanishyna, and I aimed to give a signal: let's not imagine that it can be done overnight. 

Also, don't forget that at that time, there was a month left before granting Ukraine candidate status. Therefore, with this statement, I also sent a signal to some EU states: you should not think that everything will be over with candidate decision. It will not happen that once Ukraine receive this status - you will become members of our family the very next day, or the next month.

But what I'm sure about is that the EU committed to having Ukraine joining the family as soon as we can.

Next year there will be new institutions, new European Parliament, new European Commission, but I'm totally sure, and I can guarantee 100%, that the commitment made by the EU will remain. 

And then the speed depends on efforts and circumstances.

– So, 15 years is not a minimum. If we do our job quicker, can we join sooner?

To be very clear, there's no minimum, although it takes time, depending on the efforts made and the circumstances.

What is clear is that Ukraine will join the EU.

"Provisional assessments is around $400 billion. This amount is huge"

– I will turn to the issues for which you are now responsible in the government - transport, which also means post-war reconstruction. It's often said there are several "baskets." The first is a quick recovery, which should happen right now, as soon as possible, while the main part of the reconstruction will begin only when the war ends.

I don't think we can totally separate the emergency support in the short run and the reconstruction in the medium to long run. 

What I was very impressed about here again is that Ukrainian authorities are very focused on reconstruction right now.

They have a clear message: Ukraine needs to win the war, but it also it needs to prepare itself for the first after war day whenever it happens. It gives people hope and mobilises the whole population. You feel that you fight for something, you fight for the day after, for the future, for your children.

My message during the visits was to put emergency support as a top priority. 

We are ready to do more on the civilian dimension, and this week I will convene our main private companies in the transport and logistics area, to ask them to do more for Ukraine.

France is the first G7 country which has also appointed a special envoy of the President for the reconstruction, Mr. Pierre Heilbronn, who was with me in the delegation. His task is to prepare and coordinate the efforts in France and with international partners.

– How much does this recovery cost? 

No one knows, unfortunately, as the war is still ongoing.

We have provisional assessments by the World Bank, which is around $400 billion. This amount is huge.

Also, there is a lot of awareness on the Ukrainian side that such a big amount can be reached only with private investment and business support. 

We already need to mobilise our private companies for the day after. French companies, in particular in my area. Ukraine will need a lot of public support, but also private capital to flow into the country so that the reconstruction can be as quick as possible.

– Security guarantees are critically important to attract private money. Frankly, I see no chance of successful reconstruction if Ukraine is not NATO member and is not protected by joint defense.

I heard explicitly the same thing in the discussions with the Ukrainian authorities. 

I will not focus specifically on NATO, although I know that is obviously a central part of the debate. 

But security and stability guarantees are needed to give the right framework for investment in the country. And the European Union also plays a role here. It also provides a very strong framework in this respect.

– Membership, you mean?

EU is not a military and defence alliance. But I think this also will be a guarantee of Ukraine's stability, if you have a clear perspective and a concrete plan for the EU accession. 

NATO is a sensitive issue that will be discussed. But the idea that solid security guarantees would be needed is very clear. It was one of the clear messages I brought back with me from Kyiv to my colleagues in France.

Interview by Sergiy Sydorenko,

editor of the European Pravda